INTERVIEW: ‘Stunned Silence, a Lot of Tears’

By Reuvain Borchardt

Hamodia spoke with Rep. Mike Lawler (R-N.Y.) last Thursday, four days after he took a one-day trip to Israel as part of a bipartisan congressional mission supporting Israel during its war with Hamas.

Tell us about your trip to Israel.

It was very powerful. We met with Prime Minister Netanyahu, Defense Minister Gallant, U.S. Ambassador Jack Lew and the families of the hostages.

We watched a 21-minute video of the raw footage of the attack [taken from Hamas bodycams and surveillance cameras]. That was really heartbreaking and devastating to watch. The brutality of Hamas terrorists killing innocent women, children, babies, and to see it on video — just outrageous.

Can you give us some details about the video?

There are women, children, babies burned. We watched them light fire to properties and cars, while there were people inside.

We saw them indiscriminately shoot dozens of people. Just horrific conduct. They used a garden hoe to try to behead one person, and hit the individual in the neck multiple times. In another video, they threw a grenade at a father protecting his two sons. Just brutal, brutal stuff, watching them with glee on their face as they’re killing. One person calling his parents to tell them that he killed 10 Jews and how proud he was. I mean, just insane.

Which other Congressmembers were with you on the trip?

Chairman Mike McCaul (R-Tex.) of the Foreign Affairs Committee, Ranking Member Gregory Meeks (D-N.Y.), Max Miller (R-Ohio) Madeleine Dean (D-Pa.), Jared Moskowitz (D-Fla.), and John James (R-Mich.).

There is also a video of the attacks that Israel has been showing to journalists and U.N. officials. It showed that video to House members before the March for Israel rally Tuesday. You watched that one, as well, right? That video is around 45 minutes long.

Yes, it was a longer version of the same video. Everything that was in the 21-minute video was also in the longer one.

Speaker Mike Johnson said at the rally that the video was so horrific there were members who could not make it through the whole thing and left in the middle. Did you make it through the whole thing?

Yes.

Can you tell us about some of the reactions of the Congressmembers?

There was a lot of stunned silence, a lot of tears, people unable to speak, because it’s barbaric. It’s inhumane. You’re watching the slaughter of innocent civilians. And, as I said after watching it, I don’t know how anybody could view that and say, “Yeah, there should be a ceasefire.”

How many of the House’s 435 members were there?

Maybe half.

Some of the progressive members have been calling for a ceasefire, and Israel-supporters are accusing them of essentially being apologists for terror. Did you see any of them at the viewing?

AOC (Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y.) was there. Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.), Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) and Cori Bush (D-N.Y.) were not there.

Have you had any conversations with any of them about the video, or in general about Israel and Hamas, since the war started?

Directly, no.

But I’ve been pretty clear in my denunciations of their rhetoric and their behavior.

There will be a showing of the 45-minute video Nov. 20 at the U.N., hosted by Israeli Ambassador Gilad Erdan, the UJA-Federation and the Jewish National Fund. Do you think that viewing this video will actually change the minds of anyone opposed to Israel?

It should, if they actually watch it and understand what’s happening here. There’s a difference: Israel is trying to eliminate Hamas terrorists, and they are doing everything they can to avoid civilian casualties. Hamas indiscriminately targeted innocent civilians and did everything they could to kill them. So there is no moral equivalency here. And after watching that video, I don’t see how anyone could see it otherwise.

Israel has also released videos of what it says are Hamas tunnels under hospitals. What do you think of those in the international community who are against Israel and are saying you have to be careful about civilians when you’re firing at Hamas?

The problem here is that Hamas uses civilians as human shields. And they intentionally are operating out of hospitals and schools to try and dissuade Israel from acting. It’s clearly intentional, and folks need to recognize what’s actually happening here.

What do you think of the job President Biden and the Biden administration have done so far as it relates to the war?

As pertains to Israel, overall, I think they have been very strong in their support. The President has been clear in saying that Israel has a right to defend itself, and made an effort to bolster them on that front. So I think they have handled it well on that front.

While the administration has not joined the calls for a permanent ceasefire, Biden did say that he has been pushing for a multi-day ceasefire. What do you think of that?

As part of the negotiation over the hostages, that’s something that is being discussed, but I think the Prime Minister has made it very clear that he will do that for the hostages, but they are not going to stand down with respect to Hamas.

Let’s talk now about the United Nations. UNRWA (United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East) schools are teaching kids to hate Israel, etc. U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres said the October 7 attack “did not happen in a vacuum.” What do you think about the U.N.’s behavior toward Israel, and how, if at all, do you think that should affect the U.S.’ relationship with the U.N. and funding of the U.N.?

The U.N. is antisemitic. The U.N. is anti-Israel. The secretary-general should be ashamed of himself. I put forth a resolution to condemn him for his comments. And, ultimately, I think there needs to be accountability at the United Nations. And the structure that exists and the way that it operates with respect to human rights and the Security Council needs to be reevaluated.

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rborchardt@hamodia.com